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[OchiReci]

maybe always & never are swapped in the Romanian translation?

I am the one that translated the game in romanian, and I still use that.

Always retreat - Retragere Intotdeauna
Never retreat - Retragere Niciodata

So no there are not swap.

Hm, imo you should do some testing with ships to see when the orders are changed. See what happens when you change orders from fleet control, or set it when moving from map or browser etc.

I moved only from game but I also check the order change from map. Always the orders remain the same as I put them (merge, new ship, order by entire fleet or each on), so I dident find a plausible answer to why 3 times they get a "always retreat" order (that nobody put)

[Walzis]

Have you considered that your allies might betray you, its a tactic to have a "mole" in enemy alliances.

I know the pirates had players that actually dubbleplayed their alliance just to let pirate alliances win..

You know by voting, grab leader then general, change orders and then restore general and voting?

Thats not cheating or hacking, thats just plain mean and legal...

Just saying...

[OchiReci]

Have you considered that your allies might betray you, its a tactic to have a "mole" in enemy alliances.

I know the pirates had players that actually dubbleplayed their alliance just to let pirate alliances win..

You know by voting, grab leader then general, change orders and then restore general and voting?

Thats not cheating or hacking, thats just plain mean and legal...

Just saying...

I did Walzis, was one of my first ideas on first retreat - but I was the only one online, and Vania just come on after the retreat (Squishy and Lord was off for several houers and return after some other ticks).

On second retreat - Vania send his fleet, and I wasent online so I dont know what other ally was (I enter this time exactly after the tick when his fleet retreated, dident see any other ally online - not even him was.)

On third retreat, I was the only one online all time for several houers (and in this time Phobis knew all our move made in real time, and our fleet got this change in order, even if I check and overcheck it several times). (Not to forgete, my luck because I enter close to the tick - and then put again the right orders, the "error" occur then to not allow us do something - and if I wasent with my eyse on the fleet was bad. I exit the game for 20 minutes, and when I enter again until the tick - the orders was change - think about that, they dident belive Ill come back until the turn, and If I wasent our vessel was again send to a 50 voiage to not anoy or kill Phobis. The funny thing is that the target ships was on my planet until I put again the right orderds, as soon that happen - they move away in seconds!)

So is no chance for backstabb or mole in my alliance. (and that was the only logical condition from which Phobis could knew exactly our move, and also a plausible condition for order change - but it is not the chase because all my ally was fair and verry good players.)

[mavolence]

maybe always & never are swapped in the Romanian translation?

I am the one that translated the game in romanian, and I still use that.

Always retreat - Retragere Intotdeauna
Never retreat - Retragere Niciodata

So no there are not swap.

Hm, imo you should do some testing with ships to see when the orders are changed. See what happens when you change orders from fleet control, or set it when moving from map or browser etc.

2 common mistakes that cause orders to be changed by accident... merging fleets and not resetting the orders after the merge.  Changing orders for some on the fleet control page then hitting back space to change fleets and change orders and then hitting the update fleet orders at the bottom.  Always verify orders in fleet status - view after merges and order changes.  If you don't... well... you risk get pretty disappointed with the outcome.  On fleets retreating 45 ticks, if they were in battle and left then it also sounds like a goof up from a merge or update of orders then the fleets retreating while a ship was badly damaged reducing the fleet speed to that of a slug. 

On Phobis evading your fleets... lol... have you stopped to consider that the frustration he's inflicted on you is something he's done to many other enemy players in battle simply because he is good?  We've had long wars and when I did beat him it took days to trap him and even when I did the slippery fish got away many times before I could kill him.  Once I remember we warred on each other for over a week then settled on an arranged battle because we knew we could not catch each other then and only trash each other's economy until the galaxy ended.  No spies, no cheating, plan and simple skillful generalling... and all the players from both warring alliances knew it.

[mavolence]

maybe always & never are swapped in the Romanian translation?

I am the one that translated the game in romanian, and I still use that.

Always retreat - Retragere Intotdeauna
Never retreat - Retragere Niciodata

So no there are not swap.

Hm, imo you should do some testing with ships to see when the orders are changed. See what happens when you change orders from fleet control, or set it when moving from map or browser etc.

I moved only from game but I also check the order change from map. Always the orders remain the same as I put them (merge, new ship, order by entire fleet or each on), so I dident find a plausible answer to why 3 times they get a "always retreat" order (that nobody put)

I stopped changing fleet orders from the map because of how viewing & changing can have some unexpected results.  Fleet Control and check with Fleet Status - view and click on the fleet name to see what it says in a fleet control page (when the ship/fleet is in battle - or you get a movement page).

[OchiReci]

On Phobis evading your fleets... lol... have you stopped to consider that the frustration he's inflicted on you is something he's done to many other enemy players in battle simply because he is good?  We've had long wars and when I did beat him it took days to trap him and even when I did the slippery fish got away many times before I could kill him.  Once I remember we warred on each other for over a week then settled on an arranged battle because we knew we could not catch each other then and only trash each other's economy until the galaxy ended.  No spies, no cheating, plan and simple skillful generalling... and all the players from both warring alliances knew it.

Is one thing to evade a enemy attack and other to know exaclty where he will hit, and move just 25% of your ships to avoid that. (only with a mole you could knew that - and that backstabb dident occur here and is not aplly. Phobis cant offer a logical explanation for this - because there are none, here is definitly a cheat)

What happen in this galaxy dont have any conection with a mouse and cat game, because Phobis did not evade us he simple move only the fleet that we attack each time (letting all the others stay on there planet). Even in this condition the chance of guessing each two ticks where our fleet arrive was 25%, doing that several time is 0% (considering the fact that he dont even knew that we was attacking - was first attack after 50+ houers - in which time he never see our fleet)

So Phobis is an average player, but is not good, his orders skill are low and he develope hard - wihouth some help hes food (and I always eat him in old days)

READ THIS MAVOLENCE: BUT READ IT ALL

Clavain of Chasm City (# 33101 ) - who is this dude ?

In the first battle we have with OldShcool he had 47 ships most of them crap vessel. From there in 2 days this turian with 30 planet (curently 41) build over 100 SOTL which is quite imposible consider that he need at least 10 k ore and prod per tick to do that (not considering the cost for colonization, building).

So after all our fleet was remove from battle (excuse me only 2 fleet and send away at the oposite corner of galaxy - not at the rally point - and took them 45 h to arrive, and several more to come back), after my other two ally lose 50 ship in that battle, after Vania attack after that one planet with his fleet to fiind out that he retreated from first round again, after OldSchool eat around 50 of our planet without a scout, even with 20 ships (and they knew we had fleet, could not know is in route for two days most of it) now we have this crap :

Other funny thing happen today:

-------------------- -

Round 1

Planet A 072 - Date 08/18/2012 - Houer 13:58:21
183 incoming enemy ships detected (ETA: 1 - 2).

My reaction - Send the fleet (nobody else was online from my alliance)

----------------- ----

Round 2

Planet A 072 - Date 08/18/2012 - Houer 14:58:26
14:58:26 Your battle report
Defense of (SoIace) planet A 072, round 11
Condition: Yellow
Own fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Ally fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:3 ships left:163 lost:0
Enemy shots: fired 577, misses 0
491165 Oomari citizens are irritated about the loss of 3447118 fellow citizens.
Planetary shields offline.

Enemy - 163 ship on planet and other 25 to get there in 1 tick
Us - Our entire fleet arrive in 1 tick

---------------------- ---------

Round 3

Planet A 029 - Date 08/18/2012 - Houer 15:58:21
152 incoming enemy ships detected (ETA: 1).

This is Clavman fleet. (some of them was send in other place - 16 ...dont know where exactly)
For the first time in two days one of there fleet, fleed away after tick 1, strange because the other fleet stay:

Alliance battle report from ally Squishers
Defense of (Squishers) planet A 018, round 2
Condition: Blue
Own fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Ally fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:1 ships left:1 lost:0
Enemy shots: fired 1, misses 0
2778018 Kreel citizens are seething with rage about the loss of 543 fellow citizens.
The local populace stands ready to defend but needs help urgently.

Alliance battle report from ally Deadwood
Defense of (Deadwood) planet A 037, round 11
Condition: Yellow
Own fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Ally fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:2 ships left:70 lost:0
Enemy shots: fired 308, misses 0
99185 Gorgoth citizens are deeply angered about the loss of 262058 fellow citizens.
Your planet lost 296 buildings

Your battle report
Defense of (SoIace) planet A 062, round 12
Condition: Yellow
Own fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Ally fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:10 ships left:226 lost:0
Enemy shots: fired 662, misses 0
Planet is being raided !
Your planet lost 662 buildings
Your forces lost the system to the enemy forces of Phobis2


Even if I might say that he wanted to take the planet with his second fleet, that is not posible when .... that fleet never landed.

A 072 08/18/2012
15:58:27 Your battle report
Defense of (SoIace) planet A 072, round 12
Condition: Green
Own fleets left:1 ships left:126 lost:0
Ally fleets left:4 ships left:228 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
No shots fired.

Scout Report
August 18, 3:58 PM Report A scout from Clavain was detected at Ax072.

That unknown player could not know that we come to do that, and after the event he knew ! (none of my ally was online all this time, and I never speak with him or other about this)

----------------------- ------------

Round 4

For a total coincidence, Clavman dont move to a new planet - he go to A 029 with his ally Peterman of Dead Doombringers (# 33154 )  ( Oomary - 39 planet currently ) and his his fleet (70 vessel) (curios this dude dident succesfully build 100 vessel all galaxy, clavman did that in 2 days. )))

Planet: A 029 - Data: 08/18/2012 - Houer: 16:58:27
Alliance battle report from ally Deadwood
Defense of (Deadwood) planet A 029, round 3
Condition: Yellow
Own fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Ally fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:4 ships left:240 lost:0
Enemy shots: fired 888, misses 0
97673 Gorgoth citizens are deeply angered about the loss of 3898138 fellow citizens.
Your planet lost 295 buildings

Our fleet is via 1 tick there, but there remaining fleet :

lets see - superzero123 of superzero123 (# 33144 )  (Gorgoth - 40 planet - crapy fleet - other that dont have a 800k sotl tonage fleet with 40 planet as his ally Clavman manage to obtain in 2 days.)
Alliance battle report from ally Deadwood
Defense of (Deadwood) planet A 037, round 12
Condition: Yellow
Own fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Ally fleets left:0 ships left:0 lost:0
Enemy fleets left:1 ships left:69 lost:0
Enemy shots: fired 308, misses 0
Your planet lost 458 buildings

Other ally - Phobis2 of OldSchool (# 33096 ) (L) (Kreel - 85 planet - average fleet) wasent detected anywhere from 1 tick when he conquest one planet. But wont be a surprise to meet him at A 029 next tick.

------------------------------------------









-----------------------------------

Notto say that now our fleet move with 3-4 ticks, even if I am oomary, once show me 3 tick if I try again are 4, and so on.

we fight the wind, and the wind will always win with some admin help.

All my fleet was send with following orders last tick:

Atack - SOTL
Defense - SOTL
Retreat planet - A 045
Retreat option - NEVER RETREAT

--------------------

nobody change that - I am general

I JUST CHECK! AND SURPRISE - ALL MY FLEET HAVE - ALWAYS RETREAT OPTION

WTF HAL ?

edit: after I change the fleet order again - they flee away in second, and we dident catch them again, even if on other planets they still remain with other fleets.

[OchiReci]

maybe always & never are swapped in the Romanian translation?

I am the one that translated the game in romanian, and I still use that.

Always retreat - Retragere Intotdeauna
Never retreat - Retragere Niciodata

So no there are not swap.

Hm, imo you should do some testing with ships to see when the orders are changed. See what happens when you change orders from fleet control, or set it when moving from map or browser etc.

I moved only from game but I also check the order change from map. Always the orders remain the same as I put them (merge, new ship, order by entire fleet or each on), so I dident find a plausible answer to why 3 times they get a "always retreat" order (that nobody put)

I stopped changing fleet orders from the map because of how viewing & changing can have some unexpected results.  Fleet Control and check with Fleet Status - view and click on the fleet name to see what it says in a fleet control page (when the ship/fleet is in battle - or you get a movement page).

I always check the orders for fleet from game, and overcheck it, doing that always. I also always assign new orders after each merge, and each tick assign orderds to all ship (even the one on route).

No mistake from this or forgoten from my side.

[Hal]

It is possible there is a bug with retreats. I have seen odd things occur before. But to be perfectly frank I don't have the time to dig into that code to find out. It doesn't appear to be a reproducible error, if bug it is.

[XxX]

I've seen auto-retreat bug before in alliance once with Jericho1989 of Roman Empire (I think that is his name).

He was in as turian(iirc) & his fleet retreated from planets 2 - 5 times.  

We were eating another alliance and had fleets split into 2 groups.  He thought I intentionally made his ships retreat to allow my fleet (which was grouped with his) to take the planet.

After his fleet retreated, I sent his fleet and my fleet to another planet.  I set orders to never retreat, I made him general.  I didnt come on in the tick before ships landed or the one after.  His ships retreated again on their own.

That happened a few times, luckily it went away on its own and his ships didnt retreat somewhere far away.

This was years ago, btw~

I think its definitely a bug of some type.

Theres a bug with scout orders where if you set orders too quickly or dont click on the page after setting the drop down form, sometimes it wont take effect.  That has happened to me more than once.

edit - retreat bug may have happened to others as well:

http://zerosumgames.net/index.php/topic,774.msg16346.html#msg16346
  

[OchiReci]

Thanks for the answers Hal and XXL.

Now we will get over it, and hopefull wont occur again.

[Jim]

After reading this I would naturally assume that one of Ochi's allies betrayed him, yet I know his diligence with checking details so if he says no one was online he is probably right.

I myself used a variance of this issue in order to deal with allies I did not plan on keeping.
I found that the game itself will often accept changes to saved states from external sources as long as the command is correct.

ex: I was previously able to join or split an alliance I was not in because by saving a copy of the page with the option to complete the task you then can override the pre-saved state.

I brought this to Hals attention and he handily fixed it.

I believe this issue to be of a similar nature. The page itself shows Ochi that his orders are set to never retreat yet there is a saved state where that is not the case. Despite no one having a physical copy of the page available I long believed that due to exploits in mcoultons original code people could passively edit scenarios.

Anyway thats all nonsense, basically if Hal were to later add the same check to the order changes as he did to alliance changes (seeing if it comes from a valid source as a one time option with a page refresh) then this issue with "phantom generaling" should be squared away.


---You will also find that eliminating this issue through this avenue will reduce the amount of problems with ships/fleets that appear on the players page but then are "bugged" and are not accessible. It is due to the exact same issue but from similar commands on the fleet status page.

I hope that makes sense guys.

[Jim]

ps. the point I was making is that no one changed ochis orders the game infact passively did using old code that stuck around passively. easy fix if poor Hal has the time.

Hal is by far the best thing that ever happened to space. I am always so happy to pop back in and find my very favorite hobby safe in his capable hands.

[Jim]

Yeah from looking over the various pages and options available to players, if Hal were to institute the same fix to all of the variances of the fleet status page, the options on fleet orders (oddly enough even fleet assignment of officers) then it should eliminate the last of the bugs that I am reading about right now.

The previous round of fixes took place in the building page and alliances page. I had never considered that the same exploitable issues would carry over due to similar coding style. As far as i can tell only Fleet orders and Fleet officers still have exploits available (and can passively bug themsevles)
 

[OchiReci]

Jim I am really out of words, thanks for your comments because they really have sense.

My fault because I belived that all the "bugs" from MC time was erase, expecialy because I dident play for long time.

I agree also that Hal is a player/admin that deserve the respect, and for that I dident say something about him on this topic or other, and I also respect his word from this topic.

Currently is natural to apologiaze to MoM and Phobis alliance, because that must be done.

Hope that this will be fix in future, but knowing that the space code is really hard is just a hope (at least nobody wont have the same problem us me)